Rumors

[craiglemans]

I agree that taxes are a huge problem in NYS. Government has not adjusted their salaries and benifits to be in line with "the free world", hence the people in private sectors are getting hit hard to support our bloated govt.

As I see it, the real problem with taxes around black lake is that the surrounding areas are in pretty desperate shape. Hence, you've got the minority (property owners around the lake) paying the lions share of the area taxes. The ironic thing is that most lake property owners are not there year yound so they don't benifit from snowplowing nor will they ever send a kid through the local school district.

Although, like others have said, a second home is a luxury. Unfortunately, between taxes and fuel prices that luxury will be afforded to fewer and fewer people.

[HappyCamper]

If someone can show me that the actual tax rate (i.e. the amount of tax you pay against the assessed value of your property) has gone up significantly or show me that your property is assessed at an unusually high amount then I will stand corrected.

What I believe you will find is that you're paying more taxes today because you own a more expensive piece of property that you can sell today for much more than it was originally purchased for. Which is exactly why property is being assessed higher causing your taxes to go up.

[Glenp]

Therein lies the rub...we can say tax rates have not gone up. Instead we reassess at increasingly higher values which amounts to a tax increase. I really doubt that property values around BL have gone up in value the past 5 years. If they have, they are far differant than most of the rest of the country.

The root of the problem lies in the ever expanding reach of government. We are rapidly approaching a time when government by the people for the people is a thing of the past. Government's insatiable appetite for money is making it increasingly difficult for business to function. Politician demonize large corporations. Yet no large corporation has ever demanded that I give them more money every year. Every large corporation has to live within their means or they cease to exist. Government on the other hand, has no incentive to live within its means. If government needs money, politicians don't attempt to cut waste. Instead they simply demand more from their constituents.

[Yanacocha]

Oh GlennP you couldn't have said it better. Who in St lawerence county can afford to come buy Black Lake property at the new asscessed rates? Our taxes are going to things like the project that spent over 100 grand to refurbish a house in Ogdensburg in which the city is going to sell for 40K. That was in the Watertown paper this past week. Our Blk Lake property asscessment went up $30,000.00 this year. Right! They have increased the value to increase the tax base because they need the revenue for operating funds that has been lost. Margaret Thatcher said, "Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money."

[jack]

THIS IS IN RESPONCE TO THE HAPPY CAMPER, I GOT MY PLACE ON THE LAKE BACK IN 2003 FOR 30K FROM A REALTOR LISTING. I HAVEN'T USED OR UPDATED THE CABIN BECAUSE OF CODE CHANGES UP THERE, BUT MY TAXES HAVE GONE UP TO 64K VALUE AND REALTOR TOLD ME I WOULD LUCK TO GET 40K FOR IT. TALKING TO THE TOWN IS A UP HILL BATTLE. JACK

[Glenp]

Jack

Welcome to the new normal in the world of liberal/socialist politicians who have no clue about economics. Aesop once told a story about a goose that laid gold eggs. You are seeing the fulfillment of that proverb.

[jack]

HI GLENP, I THINK YOUR ON THE MONEY. IF IT WASN'T THAT I LOVE BLACK LAKE SO MUCH I WOULD GIVE UP AND GO TO SOME OTHER LAKE. BUT ALL MY TRIPS UP TO BLACK LAKE OVER THE PASS 25 PLUS YEARS HAVE BEEN GREAT. LOOKING TO BASS OPENER AGAIN THIS YEAR. JACK

[Bob-O]

This is not what I expected but for my post. But I agree with all the people that big government is not the answer. I can take care of my self and don’t need the government to take care of me. Hearing some of the people that are land owners (relatives being some of them) what they are going through make me sick. I wanted to someday own a place of my own on BL. It seems you can’t find any land or personal property without the government stepping in and telling me what is good for me! I just want the American dream what the forefathers wanted us to exercise. Our right to live with freedom and what hard work will provide us with our right to do the best we can.

[Yanacocha]

Please visit the watertowndailytimes.com, today's editions, for an article about the Chinese developer that is now going to build a sub-divison of 20 homes alond with his school for "English as a second language", restaurant, hotel. Now home developer. If wealthy chinese start buying up property at higher prices that can only mean that existing property owners are going to see assessments go higher which in turn means more dollars out of our already lean pockets.

[HappyCamper]

THIS IS IN RESPONCE TO THE HAPPY CAMPER, I GOT MY PLACE ON THE LAKE BACK IN 2003 FOR 30K FROM A REALTOR LISTING. I HAVEN'T USED OR UPDATED THE CABIN BECAUSE OF CODE CHANGES UP THERE, BUT MY TAXES HAVE GONE UP TO 64K VALUE AND REALTOR TOLD ME I WOULD LUCK TO GET 40K FOR IT. TALKING TO THE TOWN IS A UP HILL BATTLE. JACK

Jack, if property values have not gone up then why is everyone concerned about the recent sales of property at such high prices? Some may believe that people have over-payed but the free market dictates otherwise. These recent buyers payed what they obviously felt was fair market value to them.

What it appears some are advocating here is a form of socialism by wanting the government to keep taxes artificially low in order to protect their quality of life (i.e. your second vacation home) from the wealthy who are coming in and paying more for land resulting in rising property values on the lake. I personally think it is great idea to have the government subsidize these generational family properties in order to keep them in the hands of those that would otherwise be priced out of them but that's not how our free market works. The tax rate is set at x% of property value. Property value is set by the free market. If the market dictates that property values have risen then taxes will eventually go up accordingly. To ask the government to change the way they calculate taxes to protect your lake home is a socialist idea!Your asking for special protection from increasing property values that are resulting in unfordable taxes for the working class.

I don't want to defend all taxes or all of government but I see no major injustice here other than the wealthy are able to price us out of our land and that has always happened in desirable areas. If the government increased the tax rate then I would understand but the tax rate has remained flat. We could also argue about what a fair assessment for each piece of property is but I'm not going down the road of speculation and opinion or into any deeper discussion of economics and taxes that goes beyond what is effecting the lake.

Oh by the way. You know what else is socialism? Public boat launches and roads, fish and game regulations, the government assisting in eradication of an invasive weed species, the government regulating where waste water can be deposited, banning the use of DDT as a pesticide, the blocking of a private land owner from building wind turbines on their property etc.

One of the reasons this nation has been successful is because we have learned to strike a balance between socialism and unregulated capitalism. I don't know about you but I couldn't begin to put a price on what it means to live in this country and if that cost means I have to give up or relocate my second home it's still worth all of the other advantages I have living here as a US citizen. I've been to developing countries with weak underfunded governments and lax regulations. I would not like to see this great nation fall into such disrepair and suffering. Could it better? Can we strike a different balance? Of course! As long as we have a properly functioning democracy I trust we will almost always get things close to right in the end.

[Glenp]

Nobody here is advocating socialism in any way. In fact the argument is against large government. Nobody has advocated that government get involved with artificially manipulating the free market. The frustration has to do with the over reach of government in taxation. Let me illustrate. In 2005 when we purchased our 3.9 acres our taxes were managable. In 2010 we built a 1200 square foot cabin with a 10x36 screened porch. Our appraisal done by a local realtor for a local bank set the value of the property with improvements at 4 times the original purchase price. Based on those values we budgeted for our taxes to be 4 times the original tax bill. Yet our taxes have gone up, not 400% over the original purchase price but well over 500%.

As an ordinary middle class American, I am unable to pay these kinds of taxes, therefore we will be leaving the area for some place more taxpayer friendly. Perhaps you are wealthy enough to afford extreme taxation. I applaud you if you are. However I cannot afford this kind of taxation without representation.

As far as developing countries...I am on the board of a non-profit organization that has worked in developing countries. I have been personally involved with projects in 3 differant continents. I can tell you from my experience is that the problem in poverty stricken countries has nothing to do with underfunded government or lax regulations. The problem always lies with corruption in government and with excessive government intereference in the lives of citizens.

While we are entitled to our opinions...facts are what they are!

[sasnyder]

Taxes It is truley a very hard thing to have to give up something you have dreamed about for so long. I would love to own a piece of black lake. I guess if you want to be able to afford it is if you do not build a comfortable cabin on it. no matter where you are once you make inprovements your taxes sky rocket. I know this is why you have so many areas around that the outside of a persons property looks a little less to be desired. But step inside and its awsome. They are not ashamed to say they do not fix up the outside for the taxes. This is not just in NY I have also seen it in nieghboring states. This is just my opinion not worth much. my taxes alone stop me from completely retiring and I do not live in a fancy home, only on 3 acres and a modular with full basement and a small garage. I just hope one of my children will be able to keep it.

[HappyCamper]

We could go back and forth on this forever. The original point I was trying to make is that taxes alone are not the root cause of everything that is wrong. To some the taxes on the lake are no big deal and easily affordable. To others they are too high. Some may look at you complaining about taxes on a second lake home and wish they had those problems. Reducing taxes and the size and scope of government will create other problems for other people maybe even new problems for you if it's not done carefully. Part of the reason you may be paying the amount of tax have to pay is because others aren't paying enough that should and could easily afford to pay more. It's a very complex issue with lots of causes and effects.

As far as socialism goes. I think you must have a very narrow view of what socialism is. Tax policy can and is by it's very nature a socialist concept. We are all socialists but many just don't know it. The only real debate is how much socialism do we want in our lives. Not all socialism is bad nor is all of it good. The same could be said for free market capitalism.

The same goes for government spending. What is waste to you may be a very important project to someone else. For example someone in the Midwest may say spending millions to clean weeds out of a lake in NY is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Others on here would disagree.

It's oversimplification to just blame taxes and/or spending just as it was oversimplification when I tried to make a point using developing nations as an example.

Lets just agree that we have different views on taxes and the role of government and allow the debate to continue in other public forums as it always has and probably always will.

[bigmouth]

Where I live year round on Black Lake is a modest 900 square foot dwelling on 1/4 acre acre of frontage and have no problem with the tax rate. "You wanna play, you gotta pay".

[sasnyder]

so·cial·ism   /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

A simple version os socialism......... Happy Camper.. Are you politician? Only kidding..